Notes:

«I've realized at this point that I have neglected thinking of the mental analogue that the moral society and the three classes represent. One of the reasons I wanted to reread Republic was as the last time I interpeted it too literally.»

Socrates is about to describe the five types of political systems and the ways they are inferior to the moral community's system. Each system also has a corresponding character. But he is interrupted by his discussors wanting him to expand on what he said earlier about the guardians living communal lives where they share living quarters and their wives and children. These ideas are clearly controversial especially in the times of Ancient Greece. Socrates hesitates to explain, fearing the consequences.

The specialisation principle clashes with convention when taken to its greatest extent. Plato and ancient greeks considered women inferior to men in most fields, however Plato takes the radical position that some women can still be fit to join the guardians and must then be educated like the men. Women and men have different natures, but the relevant nature for the guardians is one's innate virtue, not the gender. For example bald men are not disqualified from being carpenters as their bald nature is not relevant. Women will also be admitted to the guardians, though their physical duties will not be as great.

The guardians will not marry but share their women and children with each other. No one will know which children are theirs or who they belong to.

Eugenical principles guides procreation of the community. There will be guidance to make good people breed with other good people. Only in their physical primes will people be allowed to procreate, as it is believed that the state of the parents at conception will influence the children. At birth the children will be handled over to nurses to care for them. The malformed and handicapped will be disposed of. Bad children can come from good couples and good children from bad couples, the filtering will apply to all.

Children will join the guardians on campaigns to gain experience of warfare but not be exposed to unnecessary risk. The guardians will neither loot nor desecrate the corpses of the enemy. Those who distinguish themselves in campaigns will be rewarded. Greeks will not be enslaved and other communities will be encouraged to act in kind.

Observations:

Thrasymachus speaks up a few times this chapter, I wish his character was a bit more acitvely involved.

The admittance of women into the guardians can be interpreted as the necessity to accept good ideas that go against convention and cultural norms. The filtering of good children from bad couples and bad children from good couples extends this concept further, even from good frameworks or origins can bad ideas spring. Likewise that good ideas can spring from what is usually considered bad. Perhaps the Euthydemus dialogue is founded on this concept, that even the ridiculous argument techniques by the sophists can be appreciated.

Plato is not a feminist, though he recognizes competence no matter the background. I think this can be seen in Symposium and Menexenus, perhaps even Meno with the slave.

The mental analogue of warfare is perhaps how one should conduct oneself towards others. The prohibition of looting and desecreation represent how pettiness corrupts oneself. The concern to not enslave Greeks and communicate it to other Greeks can be seen as cooperating with other rational people capable of good, in unity against the bad.

What mental analogy does the lies in the moral society represent? A false construct we tell ourself that is ultimately beneficial. Relying on belief instead of knowledge or truth?